The Chance for Vote NO on Prop 1 Proponents to Speak Their Minds

James Baer (Editor) March 13, 2012 at 10:04 am

Patch is seeking statements for those supporting the Take Back Ladue Schools Vote NO committee. Email me your reasons, with first and last name, and I plan on publishing your views as soon as I have them.

JFB March 13, 2012 at 11:56 am

We are already speaking our minds, without your helpful editing. Thus the power of the Internet.
Very little reason to give a massively biased reporter an interview.

James Baer (Editor) March 13, 2012 at 12:18 pm

We reach thousands of residents each month. Do as you want.

Fixed Income March 13, 2012 at 01:04 pm

I notice Baer has not one, but two Vote Yes signs in his yard. Why would this group want to subject themselves to someone who "fact checked" their website using the other side's website? That is sort of like fact checking Romney's website by using Obama's. This group has a difference of opinion over the way our tax dollars are being spent. You cannot assume the school's website, or that of their surrogate committee are gospel. I mean, just this weekend, I got a post card from the Vote Yes committee saying that the increase was 49 cents per $1000 of assessed valuation. Of course, everyone knows it is on every $100 of assessed valuation. Where is Baer's story on this glaring distortion of what it will cost residents? While, I can't speak for them, perhaps, if the Patch had an unbiased reporter, one who did not cheerlead for the tax hike in his comments, this group would be interested in an interview. I would love to hear their views in an objective article.

Fixed Income March 13, 2012 at 01:44 pm

This is America. Everyone can express their views. I notice you didn't address the part about your cheerleading comments on recent stories about how you wish the "No" committee could understand the feelings of the students, teachers and administrators. Praising those who castigated the No committee. I see you failed to run a story on their recent mailer. If the No committee sent out a mailer that said the average tax increase would be $5000 a home, (the same effect as their statement, but in reverse), you would have Pearl Harbor headlines blasting them. Not a word. Crickets chirping. Nothing. Do you deny you are a supporter of Prop 1? Do you deny you are voting for it? Just let people know up front.

St. Louis is a destination March 13, 2012 at 02:26 pm

I received an email from the League of Women Voters informing me of a Ladue School Board Candidate Forum tomorrow at Ladue Horton Watkins High School cafeteria.
1. Where are the "NO" people running for the Board of Education? 2. Why won't the "NO" people answer simple questions? 3. Why won't the "NO" people state the methodology and source behind their numbers? These seem like questions that a responsible group active in politics should be able to answer.

Fixed Income March 13, 2012 at 03:32 pm

I just called the fellow who gave me my vote no sign. He said the group was not invited to the LWV presentation. I'm sure we all know the school is not going to invite them to any of theirs. He also said that the no group does plan to begin a search for board candidates, however, he said it is very unlikely anyone can be elected without the support of the parents, who are the ones who vote. Until the parents realize this board is the problem and vote in a blue ribbon slate of people who are sensitive to the concerns of seniors, they should not be surprised when taxpayers, led by seniors, continue to vote down their requests for more money. At some point, this will become clear to them.

Mary Thomas March 13, 2012 at 06:18 pm

I guess the VOTE Yes group is getting very nervous- they keep STEALING the VOTE NO SIGNS. How childish is this!!!

Fixed Income March 14, 2012 at 01:03 am

You won't read about it here. Sign thieves stole 25 more signs in Olivette last night.

James Baer (Editor) March 14, 2012 at 01:12 am

Dead wrong! I am concerned if anyone is stealing campaign signs, pro or con. I will investigate this in the morning. Stealing signs is wrong and gives a bad impression to any campaign involved.

Fixed Income March 14, 2012 at 01:17 am

Good. Mine has been stolen twice. Not one Yes sign has disappeared on my street. Why don't you get a quote from the Yes Committee.

Gregg Kinney March 14, 2012 at 03:22 pm

It is a candidate forum, not a forum on Prop 1, so why would the Vote No group or any group be invited? I notice you seem to be getting most of your information from the "fellow who gave me my vote no sign". I hope you are checking facts for yourself. There are plenty of cites available to do so. Have you reviewed the list of board candidates up for election? One of them is a retired "senior".
She obviously didn't just give up and accept your "fellows" conclusion. I know there is at least one retired "senior" on the current Board. Did you know that? Have you been to a Board meeting to voice your concerns for seniors?

Fixed Income March 14, 2012 at 03:32 pm

Yes, Gregg, I have been to several meetings. It never has done any good. Since you seem to be making fun of my use of the word "fellow," I assume you are trying to mock my age. I've read that candidate's resume. She is a former teacher. She supports higher taxes. There's three running. Close your eyes and pick one, it really won't matter. Also, did you mean "site" as in "website" or "cite" as in you used the wrong word? By the way, the fellow I contacted is has a Ph.D. I think he is quite knowledgable.

Gregg Kinney March 14, 2012 at 03:49 pm

Fixed Income- Wow, in no way was I trying to mock you or your age. I just get the feeling that there is a lot of misinformation being spread around this Prop 1 issue and want everyone to check facts for themselves. Your source may be quite knowledgable, but checking your sources is always safer. After all, everyone can make a mistake as you so kindly pointed out in your reply.
I'm glad you have attended Board meetings. Please don't give up. Just because the Board doesn't decide your way on an issue, doesn't mean that you voicing your opinion does no good. They have to balance competing interests constantly. But, they will not be informed as to your interest if you don't speak up. As to the former teacher candidate we are discussing, I couldn't tell from her position statement if she was in favor of Prop 1 or not, so I was planning to attend the candidate forum tonight to learn more about her views.

Justin A. March 15, 2012 at 01:06 am

To the "vote no" crowd, please hear this. My wife is one of the teachers at a Ladue Elementary School that was formally told (today) that they would be laid off if the Prop. does not pass. The fact is she will lose her job and so will many other highly qualified, underpaid, and devoted teachers. Less teachers for Ladue = less educated children. Of all the things on Earth to protest, how in the world are we actively trying to get teachers laid off? Please take a step back and take a look at the end result.

James Baer (Editor) March 15, 2012 at 01:25 am

I was a substitute teacher in the Ladue District for three years, and worked in all the buildings. I saw some of the most incredibly dedicated people anyone could imagine. I would drive by the schools late at night, and sometimes the classroom lights were on. Believe me, these teachers are in it to work with young children, not trying to pull down a fortune in riches. Let's keep this in mind as we head to the polls.

flyoverland March 15, 2012 at 01:58 am

Justin, I am sorry this has happened to you. But, I think you are blaming the wrong people. In 2010, I was working the polls handing out leaflets against Prop O. A teacher came out and started yelling at me. After he calmed down, I told him, "you better hope this Westminster thing doesn't pass." He asked why? I told him that any lucid person should be able to see that a district that was running a deficit had no way to equip, staff and operate a new school building. I told him the estimates for just letting it sit there were $400k a year. I told him the only way it would work would be if the voters approved a very large tax increase and if it didn't pass, major cuts were going to have to happen and here we are. He, of course said the board said it was unfair to say it would require higher taxes since they didn't know how they would use it yet. Plus, board projections said property values would be going back up. The projections of what would be required that were made by the No on Prop O committee turned out to be accurate almost to the dollar. The Board of Education was wrong and is to blame. I might also point out that at MICDS a few years ago, when cuts were discussed, all the teachers agreed to freeze their pay so no one go laid off. Why wasn't this an option at Ladue? Look, buying Westminster might have been a good idea someday, but not in a recession. Who else was Westminster going to sell it to? It was bad judgment and you and your family are paying the price.

Steve March 15, 2012 at 03:16 am

flyoverland- One of the biggest points of this whole discussion you seem to miss is that there are two pots of money for the district. One for building contruction, puchasing land which have been the bond issues and the other one is operating. The two cannot be combined. Without Westminster the district would have had to have a tax levy increase because home values have continued to fall. Do you understand that overcrowding is very real and exists in the school? Trailers have been installed on some schools but more would have to be installed or will be installed without Westminster. The High School needed the fields for Athletics and the Ladue Early Childhood Center was falling apart and in need of extremely costly repairs and not a good use of tax payers money to try to fix. Not to mention the overcrowding at every singe elementary school and a middle school that will be busting at the seams next fall. The timing was lousy and would not have been done except it held an answer to all the problems facing the district and was the best investment for a land locked district.

flyoverland March 15, 2012 at 03:25 am

Steve, you underestimate my knowledge of all things school board. I know their budget inside and out. The best answer I can give you is I need a new Mercedes S550, but I can't afford it. You don't buy what you can't afford. They bought it knowing they didn't have the money and were not honest with the voters about what it was going to cost. It was all double-talk. Now, people do not trust the school board anymore and this thing is going to lose. This was a failure of the school board. Put the blame where it belongs.

Steve March 15, 2012 at 03:27 am

Flyoverland-
Addressing the issues later would be even more costly to the taxpayer.. Each trailer installed is $100,000 dollars which would come out of the operating budget. That is money spent that is a complete waste. Lets say 10 trailer have to put on the schools property that a million dollars wasted in temporary classrooms. Doesn't it make better sense to own rather than rent? You keep talking about buying Westminster as a mistake but it solved many long term problems the district was facing and either way with appraised values down the district would need money. You keep saying they had no plan for the building. It was being decided what was the best way to utilize the facility. They had lots of plans just needed to see what was the best one and one where they recieved a tremendous amount of community input from. A tremendous amount of research and thought went into that decision and was not entered into lightly. Had you attended any of the meeting about this project you would already know this. If you had attended any of the district meeting about Prop 1 you would know that what you are claiming is untrue.If you were a parent involved in the district you would also know what you are saying in untrue. Anyone who is involved in the district understands what the facts are.

Steve March 15, 2012 at 03:27 am

flyoverland-
You do not have a command of the facts. I doubt you have even stepped inside one of the schools to see for yourself what goes on and what truly amazing schools they are. This is one reason the parents are so passionate is because they understand most of all what their child stands to loose. This is more than just having to pay more in taxes it is the educational future of all the children who attend Ladue Schools.

flyoverland March 15, 2012 at 03:59 am

I didn't see you at the candidate's forum tonight Stevie, unless you came as a chair, of which there were plenty. Please don't embarrass yourself by attacking people with whom you disagree when you are a victim of the facts. When this loses, there is nothing stopping you and anyone else who wants to pay their increase directly to the school. It would probably even be tax deductible.

BMarshall March 15, 2012 at 03:42 pm

I want to bring up those buses again to remind the commenters that the district has kept as much bus service as much as possible to try to be better neighbors. Resident who live near the schools have expressed concerns about traffic jams near the schools. Bus service decreases the car traffic to the schools and therefore decreases traffic jams near them. However, due to the tight budget, the bus service is less now than it was in previous years. Bus service is on the chopping block for next year, however, so we all may need to allow extra time to drive by the schools.
And, I have to comment on the teacher yelling - I was walking in to vote during that time and saw the principal walk out and politely offer a cup of cold water to a Vote No person who was standing in the hot sun. The Vote No person shouted back, "You can't AFFORD water!" and knocked it to the ground. So, tempers have flared on both sides - may everyone can take it down a notch?

Justin A. March 16, 2012 at 12:44 am

Look, I get it... I'm sure the school board could do a way better job cutting expenses and managing a budget. The bottom line is I don't think voting no will solve those problems directly... It WILL get teachers laid off... I think your voice is better heard addressing these problems while at the same time making sure your community has the best teachers for your children. There are other ways to have your voice heard than to vote no and have teachers laid off.

Fixed Income March 16, 2012 at 12:56 am

Teachers are not being laid off by voters. Teachers are being laid off by the school board which refuses to do anything except adhere to an unsustainable budget without sufficient resources. Look at the budget they put out Monday night. Even IF Prop 1 passed, they would still have a huge deficit in the out years. This means they already know they will need another tax increase on top of Prop 1. Why won't they just level with people? Their plan? Hope things get better. Hope is not a strategy. Passing Prop 1 will only enable this entrenched board to continue its profligate spending. If this wins, they will feel empowered to ask for more and think their bad decision about Westminster has been forgiven. This election is not about the teachers. It is about the board and administration. They are the ones making it about the teachers by firing them instead of cutting things like the huge travel budget and having the leadership and courage to ask all teachers to take a one year freeze. Where is the vote of "no confidence" in this board from the teachers? That would embolden parents to step up and run candidates who could get the job done.

Justin A. March 16, 2012 at 07:17 pm

Actually, in this case teachers WILL be laid off by the result of the vote. As messed up as it is, the voters hold the fate of the teacher's jobs.

LAS March 17, 2012 at 12:47 pm

Fixed Income--
It appears to me that you are of the mindset that everyone needs to make sacrifices in this situation...except for you. You are protesting a tax increase because you are on a "fixed income" but you want the teachers to "take a one year freeze." As a teacher in Ladue, I can't even entertain the idea of purchasing a house in the district. If you are a resident who can afford a house in the Ladue School District and you're struggling financially, can you just imagine MY "fixed income" situation as a teacher?

Care4kids March 17, 2012 at 07:28 pm

It seems as if some are out of touch with reality. Do you not see that Lindbergh, Parkway, and Hancock are all facing similar financial troubles? All have higher state funding and higher tax rates than the Ladue District. Most areas have supported their districts with tax levies. This is not a case of mismanagement this is a case of a down economy and the need to support our district. Fixed income, I do not mean to sound disrespectful here but everyone and every organization can manage funds better. You purchased your home in this district as an investment. If your taxes are very high, you have a very expensive home, if you cannot afford those taxes, you have probably mismanaged your money. If your taxes are smaller and your home is modest, the change in your taxes will be minimal. I pay a higher tax rate than most and am too on a fixed income. It is what is right, and I do not complain.

Fixed Income March 17, 2012 at 11:54 pm

This has to be the best rationalization yet. Let's see. Because the school board engaged in mismanagement by buying a high school, while suffering a deficit, in the middle of a recession, I should have to pay more to mitigate it and if I can't, it is my fault that I mismanaged my money because if I hadn't mismanaged my money, I would have the money to pay for the sins of the school board. I only wish I had known before I wasted all that money on groceries. This whole campaign has been about mismanagement and not leveling with the voters. The board thought it was "cute" after they slicked through Prop O. Well, they are paying for it now. Until parents take charge and quit taking their lead from the board the schools may not be the way you want them. The Yes group, which tells people if they don't want to or can't pay their hefty increase that they should move, still hasn't given one good reason other than fear tactics on why anyone should dig deeper.