patching...
Welcome back, Patch Blogger!

Do You Think This Post Card is Divisive and Hateful?

This is the most recent mailing from the 'Take Back Ladue Schools' committee.

 
0 of 0
Photos (1)

Photos

Folks in Olivette are up in arms. They think this post card smacks of division; is hateful and mean spirited and has racial, ethnic and religious overtones.

Demographics clearly show that a large portion of the population in the City of Olivette is either African American, Jewish, Asian American or from other minority groups.

Patch is looking for your opinion. Is the 'Take Back Ladue Schools' committee promoting class envy? Are they trying to burden Olivette residents with the guilt of having to carry their financial burdens.

Vote now, and then vote Tuesday.

  • Is this post card divisive and hateful?

    (Voting has been closed for this question)
    • Yes by all means
        1223 (68%)
    • No I don't think so
        515 (28%)
    • Don't have a strong opinion
        38 (2%)
    Total votes: 1776
  • Your vote will only count once. This is not a scientific poll. View Results Vote!
Related Topics: Take Back Ladue Schools, post card mailing, and voter poll

mjf

12:21 pm on Sunday, April 1, 2012

Mr. Baer, are any of the facts on the postcard inaccurate? If not, then do you consider presenting factual evidence contrary to your own opinion to be promoting hatefullness and divisiveness?

Regarding promoting class envy....did you read the editorial you published by Gloria Bilchik, in which she chastised people who Vote No side and might still go out and buy a non-essential good or service? Is there a better example of promoting class envy than her? Where was your outrage with her for divisiveness, hatefullness or class envy?

It seems to me that you are taking a factual political postcard, and twisting it into something that could better describe the tactics of some on the Vote Yes side.

There is a well-documented psychological concept known as psychological projection. You might want to read up on it here:

http://karlrwolfe.com/psychological-projection.html

Reply

Fixed Income

3:53 pm on Sunday, April 1, 2012

Good Lord. What is objectionable? Warning Ladue residents that this plus more expected local taxes (firehouses and sidewalks) could run up their tax bill even more, (I would have also mentioned the end of the Bush tax cuts after the first of the year). Are you saying this is divisive because it points out the obvious? Since when is the truth offensive? I don't get it.

Reply

Sarah

5:36 pm on Sunday, April 1, 2012

The mailer may not be lying, but perhaps it should include the fact that the Ladue is the largest zip code that is entirely serviced by Ladue School District as opposed to Olivette, which is considerably smaller. The other zip codes have considerably less area that is serviced by the district. Ladue residents are going to pay more because more area is encompassed, not because the residents are paying more than their fair share. The way this mailer is worded states the information in a way that sounds very snobbish and characterisitic of what many people outside of this area think of Ladue and its residents. I wouldn't think that is how people would want to be viewed no matter what your opinions are on Prop 1. It just was not classy at all and really just plain distasteful.

Reply

flyoverland

6:24 pm on Sunday, April 1, 2012

Sarah, acreage doesn't matter so much as what is on it. I live in Creve Coeur and didn't get the card. My neighborhood is like the U. N. I am not offended. What is offensive is this group, that knows it is going to lose, expressing its desperation by introducing the race card. It is simply outrageous. To claim that Olivette, one of the most affluent communities in the county is a code word for something negative is beyond absurd. It is like Beverly Hills tweaking Bel Air. By the way, I saw this being tweeted by the yes people yesterday. If I am not mistaken, the picture of the card used by Baer has the same distinctive stain in the middle of the fourth paragraph as was used by the Yes people yesterday. So, when Baer says, "people are upset," I am sure we can qualify that to mean the yes committee people. Will he admit the picture of the card came from them? I have volunteered for the No group when I was able this year and I can tell you many of the signs I delivered in Olivette and Creve Coeur were to Jewish voters. Perhaps, the most amusing part of this theater of the absurd is the fact that the chairwoman of the No group is herself, a minority. Perhaps the Yes group is upset they were out hustled by her. I am also still wondering about that robo-poll that was going around Ladue and Frontenac over the weekend. Does anyone know who did it? What were the results? Who is in the lead? Maybe the Patch could assign Jim to that story.

Reply

James Baer

6:33 pm on Sunday, April 1, 2012

Enter the post card poll. 66 percent say this card is both divisive and insensitive.

Reply

Robin

8:25 pm on Sunday, April 1, 2012

So, help me out here...are all the people who align themselves with Vote No living in the 63124 zip? What does the number of the Board members who live in Olivette have to do with anything? Are the sidewalks more important than education...and that is what we are supposed to glean from this? I think the mailer has created a feeling of seperation or elitist feel...I don't personally think it is racist...I just don't understand why this would help the Vote No. I think it actually makes me wonder why most of our Volunteers who devote hundreds of hours of their lives to our community seem to be from one area? WHERE are all these 63124 folks who want things done differently???

Reply
Comment_arrow

flyoverland

9:00 pm on Sunday, April 1, 2012

Robin, I think the purpose of this mailer was simply to turn out the base. Everyone who knows recent school elections knows this is going to win in Olivette and lose in Ladue. There have been numerous back channel emails going around doing the same type of thing about the "greedy rich" in Ladue who can afford the tax increase, but who don't want to pay. As someone who doesn't live in either town, but who has friends in both, I can tell you many people in Ladue, Frontenac and Hunteligh feel this school board does not represent the entire community. Over the past few years the power of the district has become centered in Olivette. Four of seven board members live there and depending on who wins this board election, it could be five. The core constituency of the school is the parents with kids in school. Most of them live in Olivette. Most in Ladue and Frontenac use private schools. One of the themes of this election has been that the board no longer cares about the entire community. There are four groups. Parents with kids in LSD, Parents with kids in private schools, taxpayers without kids in any school and the retired taxpayers. I can assure you large percentages of the latter three groups feel they are not represented and are always viewed simply as deep pockets to pay for the first group. I have said this for the past month here. Until the parents recognize they need to elect a board that represents all interests, we are in for many more elections like this.

James Baer

6:13 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

Looks like the "no's" will win this round?

Reply

Holly

6:34 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

I am a city of Ladue resident. I am Jewish. I received the postcard and found it very offensive. It did not occur to me that it was racist and/or anti-semitic. I just found it divisive, thought it suggested that Olivette and the school board is leeching off of Ladue, and thought it suggested that we should oppose prop 1 because of taxes for other things like sidewalks, federal spending, etc.

I do have children in the LSD, but even if I did not, I would support this tax increase. I believe that we have a civic responsibility to educate our population. The spending of the LSD is very comparable to surrounding districts, so the idea that it is mismanaging its money just doesn't ring true. The student population has increased by nearly 700 students--that is nearly the size of two elementary schools. Revenue, whether it has increased or decreased, has not kept pace with the increase in student population. Certainly cuts can be made, but each cut has a price that isn't as simple as the dollars spent.

In response to flyoverland, the school board members are elected officials, elected by all Ladue School District residents, not just parents.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Fixed Income

7:47 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

Holly, yes, everyone votes, however, it is impossible for anyone to win without the organized block of parents who vote the way they are told. The school machine is very effective at intimidating parents into voting their way. When the percent committeeman, I mean the room mother comes by with your sign, you better put it up if you are a parent. The political parties wish they were as well organized as the school's political machine. When you figure there are around 3800 parents, who are registered to vote and that there are generally around 8000 votes cast out of the 21000 votes in the district, it is an impossibility for someone, say a retired person with no ties to the schools to be elected to the board. The only defense the retired people have against this insatiable, tax grabbing board is to oppose tax increases which do generate the interest and can be defeated. The parents must take the lead to elect board members who include everyone, or face opposition at every election.

mjf

7:01 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

There have been at least 3 or 4 comments over the past few weeks from Prop 1 supporters who have made the following statement: a. spending is comparable to surrounding districts so there is no fiscal mismanagement; and b. enrollment has grown by 700 students.

Take a step back and think about those 2 statements....enrollment has grown by 700 students, and yet spending PER STUDENT has increased and now stands at $13,000 per student. So in addition to the incremental growth in spending for the existing 3,200 students between 2003 - 2011, total spending has also expanded by an additional $13,000 x 700 students = $9.1 million since 2003. This additional $9.1M in spending negates the proponents 'extra 700 students is a burdon on the district' argument.

Putting these two facts together actually justifies why the school doesn't need a tax increase. It has been able to maintain spending per student even in the face of a 22% increase in enrollment over the past 9 years.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Holly

7:36 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

Like everywhere else, costs have risen over the last 8 years--costs the district cannot control. To suggest that we should be able to educate a student in 2012 for the same cost as in 2003 does not make sense.

Comment_arrow

Fixed Income

7:49 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

To say we should be taxing people not getting raises to give raises to others also does not make sense.

Comment_arrow

mjf

9:44 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

Holly, I don't want to repeat the whole inflation analysis here because you can find it elsewhere in comments on other Patch articles, but Ladue School District revenue has increased at a rate significantly higher than inflation over the course of the last 30, 20 and 10 years. As an example, after accounting for inflation, the district has 50% more money (in real, inflation adjusted dollars) today with 3,900 students than it did 30 years ago when it had 3,700 students. Are you surprised to know that the LSD has only 200 more students today than it did in 1980?

Over time, revenue has increased not because of tax rate increases, but because the assessed valuation of the district has significantly outpaced the rate of inflation. Partly because of existing home values increasing, but also because of tear-down of old homes and replacing them with new, higher valued homes in the district.

I'm not suggesting that the school is educating kids at the same cost per student as they did in 2003. They have significantly more money, per student, today than they did in 2003 and they also have 700 more kids.

Holly

8:18 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

I will point out that teacher's take home pay has decreased because although salaries have increased, we have asked them to pay more of their health insurance, etc.

When economic times are difficult, we have to prioritize where to spend our money. I am choosing to make the education of our citizens a priority. Not just my own children, but the children in my community.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Fixed Income

8:26 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

I am pointing out everyone's health insurance has gone up. Everyone's pay has been frozen, or cut. Asking administrators and teachers to suck it up like everyone else is not being mean or hard-hearted. It is just the way it is right now. We have always paid our teachers above the norm. I think even the most ardent supporter of Prop 1 will agree that no Ladue administrator is going to starve anytime soon. When the retired are not getting any return on their savings, when medicare costs eat up the one increase we've seen in the past three years, where are they supposed to find more to pay the teachers more? Not one teacher is going to quit and go somewhere else if they don't get a raise. Where are they going to go? Not one administrator is going to quit and leave. There will be some seniors who will have to sell out at the bottom of the housing market because they can't afford this huge tax. It seems very selfish to me to make them suffer for others to get more. You will all be old someday, then you will see.

Holly

11:26 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

You could just as easily argue it is selfish to make children suffer for lack of a fine education, a lack that will dog them their whole lives. teachers have been asked to take cuts. They bring home less each month than they used to. We could go on arguing about who suffers and why all day, and in the end we are each entitled to our opinion. I am trying to look at what is best for our community as a whole. Of course you can argue that at the moment I directly benefit from this and that if I couldn't afford the tax I would change my tune. And perhaps you would be right; since I am not in the position, I can't say. But I am quite confident that I wouldn't be out there passionately trying to defeat something that I recognize as needed.

Reply
Comment_arrow

mjf

1:27 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

Holly, if "children will suffer for lack of a fine education" at a taxpayer cost of $13,000 per student, then the problem is with the Board and administration, not with the taxpayers.

Taxpayers provide $13,000 per year, per student, and you label taxpayers as "selfish"? Around 99.5% of Missouri teachers and children must wish their own districts' taxpayers were so selfish.

The hyperbole on the Yes side regarding the impact of Prop 1 failing is beyond ridiculous. If the Board can't find a way to provide a great education with $13,000 per year, then put in a new Board or take what the current Board gives you. Your choice.

Fixed Income

11:42 am on Monday, April 2, 2012

I am not really sure what you said, but I am pretty sure I disagree with it. VOTE NO tomorrow.

Reply

Louis Leffingwell

12:34 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

Do you think that a so called journalist is wanting this issue to be hateful and divisive?

Reply

J. A. Rollins

2:27 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

Doesn't every child no matter what side of Olive deserve a quality education? This post card polarizes the attitudes of the rich in that they have a problems with supporting those who could be seen as less fortunate. I interpret this post card as saying, "why can't they chip in and pay more" when the issue is every child needs a quality education. It says that we are rich and the rest are trash. I will vote yes, even though I don't have a dog in the fight. The post card actually made up my mind.

Reply
Comment_arrow

sso

2:40 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

Amen! I think whoever created/approved this mailer exhibited poor judgment. Glad to hear you will be voting YES tomorrow. I am with you!

Comment_arrow

mjf

4:03 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

J.A. - every child, even the ones who don't live in the Ladue School district, deserves a quality education. The question is, does a delivering a quality education require spending more than $13,000 per student, per year? The vast majority of Missouri school districts provide a quality public education at a much lower cost than $13,000 per student, per year.

The issue here is that the Board's priorities are out of line with the current economic environment and they choose to measure 'quality' by dollars spent and keeping 'rank' with Clayton on teacher pay and spending per student. Using spending as a key metric of success only guarantees that the Board will spend more & more, to keep rank. Voting Yes is a validation of the Board's strategy.

If you Vote Yes, be prepared for another large tax increase in 3-4 years, because the Board's own tax & spend budget projections anticipate the need for another tax increase in 2015/16.

Comment_arrow

J. A. Rollins

11:07 am on Tuesday, April 3, 2012

I went and voted "yes" today! I left the ballot blank accept for my "YES" vote! Personally, I am against any measure that says I am worse off because of where my address is located. I expect more from people! Oh wait, that post card must have come from the 1%... Ha!

Sandra Myers

4:07 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

Now the Drudge report has linked to this site, this issue has gone global.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Fixed Income

5:05 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

I just looked. The only story about St. Louis is about the shooting in the Loop. You might be confusing it with the Huffington Post.

Marc Bernstein

6:55 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

It was an attack that was in very poor taste and showed no hint of grace. I feel sorry for anyone who in their hearts cannot see why this mailing was wrong.

Marc Bernstein

Reply

Angela Adams

6:55 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

Thank you, fixed income! I fear that those who are able to keep their home despite historically low returns on retirement investments or heaven forbid merely social security would be the most likely to lose their homes from increased property tax. As a working former Ladue Schools employee, I saw inside the out of balance decision that a new building caused, and it falls me as a resident in this economy to ask for even more.

Reply

Angela Adams

7:09 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

It galls me, not Falls. The district would do foolish things like insist I cut down on my bandaid budget, because they didn't plan for the one time relatively small outlay for first aid kits. Later, they decide sixth grade camp was "necessary" to the tune of thousands even though we got an email asking parents if it was ok not to mail report adds to save postage. Add to that the new building expenditure and I am absolutely unconvinced that the district has been making wise financial decisions. Yes, these are empirical examples. Yes peeved $34 million mistake goes a long way, and it is patently offensive to this middle class voter to be asked for even more in an economy where my house is worth less.

Reply

Angela Adams

7:19 pm on Monday, April 2, 2012

Report cards above...iphone typo!

Reply

Leave a comment